This week, Jared converses with Nadia Laabs, the co-founder of SafetyNet Technologies. She has increased efficiency, sustainability, and business growth of mission-driven organizations through the On Purpose program, through The Impact Collective, which she helped set up.
Nadia Laabs, co-founder of SafetyNet Technologies, shares about work efficiency, sustainability, and growing one's business.
More about our guest:
Nadia works using a Human-Centered Design approach to help organizations become sustainably and socially successful by developing and implementing business plans that work and finding innovative alternatives with actionable solutions to the challenges they are trying to tackle.
Previously, she worked in consumer research and product development at P&G, started up her own businesses, and picked up business knowledge from INSEAD. She has a BSc in Mechanical Engineering from The University of Texas, an MBA from INSEAD, and a Certificate in Social Sector Leadership from the University of California, Berkeley, Haas School of Business. Learn more about
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Episode Guide
0:00 - Intro
1:56 - What Is Innovation
3:25 - Seeds from days at P&G
4:30 - Innovation from the Traveler perspective
6:58 - Innovation stages in different places
7:13 - Innovation doesn't have to be like the new and sexy
7:52 - Kenya, Thailand
8:34 - Different views of innovation and implicit bias
8:59 - Street Smart
11:22 - SafetyNet Technologies
13:57 - Basic Premise of the technology
16:13 - Innovation is working together
17:21 - Falling in love with the innovative impact
19:20 - Travel: a hobby or an addiction?
21:46 - Mental health
23:04 - Advice to innovators
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OUTLAST Consulting offers professional development and strategic advisory services in the areas of innovation and diversity management.
/This transcript was automatically generated using AI; please forgive any inconsistencies. We are working to provide the correct and more concise copy of the transcript. For urgent need, please send us an email."
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Jared Simmons 00:05
Hello, and welcome to what is innovation. The podcast that explores the reality of a word that is in danger of losing its meaning altogether. This podcast is produced by Outlast consulting, LLC, a boutique consultancy that helps companies use innovation principles to solve their toughest business problems. I'm your host, Jared Simmons, and I'm so excited to have Nadia Laabs.
Nadia has increased efficiency, sustainability, and business growth of mission-driven organizations through the on-purpose program through the Impact Collective, which she helped set up, and as a co-founder at Safety Net Technologies. Previously, she worked in consumer research and product development at P&G started her own business and picked up business knowledge from NCI using a human-centered design approach. She loves to help organizations become sustainable and socially successful by developing and implementing business plans that work and finding innovative alternatives with actionable solutions to the challenges they are trying to tackle. She has a Bachelor of Science in mechanical engineering from the University of Texas and an MBA from INSEAD. A certificate in social sector leadership from the University of California Berkeley Haas School of Business. Nadia, thank you so much for joining us today.
Nadia 01:18
Thanks, Jared. Nice intro.
Jared Simmons 01:22
Nice career. It's amazing, amazing stuff we've been up to since last we spoke.
Nadia 01:29
Yeah, it's been a while
Jared Simmons 01:31
It has been it's been too long. Looking at your bio, it was back in the consumer research and product development at P&G days.
Nadia 01:39
Yeah, I think I left in 2013 so it's been a while. It's good to see you again
Jared Simmons 01:46
Likewise. I can't wait to hear about all the new stuff you've been up to and things like that. Why don't we dive right in?
Nadia 01:53
Sure. Sounds good.
Jared Simmons 01:54
All right, so tell me, what is innovation?
Nadia 01:58
The leading question? So much pressure. In terms of what I was thinking of my response for this question, is that it stems from our days at P&G, a lot of it being on like, the way that P&G does their product research and being very human centric and user-focused. I think the innovation for me, at least, that I think is sustainable in the long run, relies on having that human-centered approach to things. Tackling the root of the problems that the person that you're solving for, it's experiencing. Innovation for me is having a good understanding of what that is and knowing the basics of the problem for the person, how to solve that challenge for them, but then finding sustainable ways to bring that forward and implement that solution.
Jared Simmons 02:53
Yeah, that's great. That does have a lot of foundation in the way we were raised in the P&G days in terms of how to think about that but it also has elements of parts of your value system. In terms of doing that in a way that's sustainable and helping people. We talked about solving problems for people, but the word help in the context that you use, doesn't apply to kind of what we were trying to do you know what I mean, you could use what we were trying to do to help but that wasn't at the root of it, but I hear it at the root of your definition of innovation.
Nadia 03:26
I guess, in fairness to PNG, they planted that seed in me, right, even in terms of the health aspect. Maybe not solely, as I think, also, we did a lot of volunteer work together back in Cincinnati. I think part of it was rooted in wanting to help in that way but it was also through some of the projects that I got to work on at PNG. It was to help like the bottom of the pyramid and figuring out products and services that could help those in developing countries, and how to kind of help them out of the poverty line. There were elements of that, that were seated from that. It was kind of that construct of support from PNG, the voluntary stuff that we were also doing, and just having, I guess, experienced a bit of the world where I saw inequality and injustice and wanting to see how I could make my mark to help improve that if I could.
Jared Simmons 04:20
Tell me about, you mentioned inequality and injustice, and I know personally, that you're a bit of a traveler, which is a funny understatement; for those who know you. Tell me about what you've seen in different places and different cultures and environments and how that has shaped your view of what innovation is and how it can be useful.
Nadia 04:40
I think having had the luxury really, of being able to experience a lot of the world has been enlightening in so many ways. Experiencing great cultures and people and attitudes and innovations in every realm as well. But also seeing kind of the inequality of the haves and the have nots and seeing that as a really big divide. Part of that being innovation that might not be created or developed for the have nots, and maybe just focus more on the haves, or also whether it's developing innovations for the have nots that, as I mentioned, are sustainable in the long term. It's a bit of that white savior complex sometimes coming in, it's like, oh, yes, I want to help the have nots, but really have no idea on finding a way to create a solution that can actually live in that in that realm and survive in a long term way it would be adopted.
Jared Simmons 05:37
Yeah. Right. Right. And I love the fact that you use the term sustainable in its full sense. Nowadays, when you hear the word sustainable in a business context, it is almost always attached to environmental impact. Right. So you're talking about a sustainable solution. People think, Oh, it's green. All right. But when you say sustainable, you mean, the humanistic, enduring impact version of sustainable, which is my favorite use of the word?
Nadia 06:04
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's I think that's probably I mean, obviously, that's that where it originated from. But the intent of it being that long-lasting thing, but yeah, now more labeled with a bit of a greenwash to it again.
Jared Simmons 06:18
I think so which makes it sometimes difficult to talk about the broader definition of sustainability, and things being sustainable. I think it has made it more difficult to have that conversation, because the language is because, yeah, I kind of lost the language around it a bit. So it's good to hear you. Keeping that definition alive. That's awesome. So as you move through these different cultures and see different things and have different experiences, I would imagine that you know, what is new in one culture might not be new in another, you know, and when we talk about innovation, a lot of times people kind of conflate it with newness. Yeah, how is your view shaped around seeing those different stages in different places?
Nadia 07:04
Oh, man, I can in this podcast glass, like five hours if I went on a tirade on this, but basically, I'm a big advocate, I guess you could say, towards the idea that innovation doesn't have to be like the new and sexy. And it doesn't have to be your own startup and things like that, right? Because I think there's such as a stigma to like, innovation, new, exciting, yep, it hopefully is always exciting. But it does definitely does not have to be new. So even taking things where it might be an old way of doing it but in a new way. Or just as you said, like reapplying in a different market where that hasn't been seen yet. Even, for example, I was mentioning like there is innovation within the have nots communities, right. So seeing innovation there where for example, even one example is like Empresa, in Kenya, and that being such a leapfrog for Kenya and being able to access finance, but that something like that, on that technological events, not yet being available in western countries yet, really being able to learn from them from all those types of different innovations and reapply it to different opportunities and markets. So yeah, it's not always the new and sexy of like the Western world, as I think innovation sometimes gets put into that bucket.
Jared Simmons 08:27
Well said, Well said, I couldn't agree more. And I also like that you highlighted when you say, people have this kind of new and different equals innovation kind of thing in their hands. But it's also that things flow from the haves to have nots. That's the way innovation that's the way you know, new ideas, good ideas, good things flow from the haves to have nots. And that's this sort of implicit bias in the world, both economically and racially and you know, in class systems in different communities. And what I found, you know, I grew up in rural southeast Alabama, and my grandmother, she didn't have a high school education, but she was, you know, brilliant in how she solved problems and approach things, instruction things. And, you know, she would tell my mom stand, you know, with your feet closer together in the kitchen, you take up less space, you know, like, oh, who would think of that? Yeah, you know, so ways of thinking and conceptual ideas that lead to new and different things can come from a, you know, it's a continuum. It's not necessarily a flow in one direction.
Nadia 09:30
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's a lot of that like that street smartness, too. Yeah, that brings about a lot of innovation. And same with my mom, like, she didn't go to college, but she is street smart as hell. Yeah. And a lot of the ideas that come from her are things that can really be applied to kind of the broader markets and mainstream
Jared Simmons 09:49
right so yeah, yeah, exactly. It's and it's funny when someone in my even more with you, if someone looks at your background, you know, PNG, you're an engineer, you know, Cal Berkeley, all those things, you know, They would assume Oh, well, yeah, she's very smart. And she learned a lot from those places. But what I found, again that with the same kind of background you have, but what I found is that a lot of what I learned and apply every day and dealing with people and solving problems I got, you know, in rural Alabama in my grandmother's kitchen. Yeah.
Nadia 10:19
Without discrediting those institutions, and how much money I've spent. But like, I think one of the major benefits of going there is that is exactly like, you know, having the background knowledge already, but it was more about the confidence and then being
Jared Simmons 10:36
able to apply that right, exactly, exactly. The confidence, the structure, the community, the people, you've, you know, you're around and new ideas you're exposed to, there's definitely value in it. And I think it can sometimes obscure the fact that we learn from a lot of different things and experiences in places, you know, we've been to a lot of places and seen a lot of things, I'm sure you've learned a lot from those environments as well.
Nadia 10:59
And that's the thing is, it doesn't take, you know, world travel to do that. It's just having that open-mindedness to be open to being influenced and kind of seeing different experiences as well. Yeah,
Jared Simmons 11:10
yeah. That's, that's for sure. is for sure. So, uh, tell me a bit about the safety net. I'd love to hear a little bit about safety net technologies.
Nadia 11:20
Sure. SafetyNet Technologies is a startup that I got involved in about five years ago. And so at that point, I was working as a consultant, helping different organizations with their social or environmental impact. And I met Dan, so my co-founder and CEO, through a common friend, and he told me about the technology he was building, where it was helping attract the right fish, but repelling the wrong fish within the fishing industry. And I was like, this is very weird. Also because I have no knowledge about the fishing industry at all. But I was like, that sounds really cool. Because, you know, there's a lot of waste that happens in the fishing industry. And I never really thought about, you know, more effective catch. Yeah. And so the fact that he was working on this technology been working on it, I think, at that point for five, six years or so. And I was like, you've gotten some really great results of being able to reduce bycatch. So the unwanted capture of fish by up to 90%, and then some of these scientific case studies. So Wow, why haven't you taken this market where you can really make that impact at scale? Right, within the large commercial fishing industries? Yeah. Here's like, "Well, I'm busy working on the technology."
Jared Simmons 12:37
Only 24 hours in the day, and at that
Nadia 12:39
point, it was him and also other co founder, Aaron, who was working also as a part time basis and building some of these early prototypes. And so I had just done my MBA. And I was like, right, let me help you get this to market, I will write you a business plan. And I'll get us there within six months, you know, because you've got the technology, you've got that proven, it's built in a way with a very human centric design. So we work with fishers to build the technology to understand what their needs are, and how it fits into their existing operations. Okay, and so that for me was was kind of the nugget because I was like, right, this is something I can get really passionate about, because I know they're solving for a root problem. I can see a sustainable business model out of this, because, you know, there should be demand. Yeah, yeah. And so I wrote of the initial business plan. Cool. It wasn't so much, six months, four years later, yeah. You know, five, maybe even but yeah, given COVID. Yeah. So yeah, so it all took a little bit longer. But it was a really exciting technology and concept that I really got behind because of that, again, user centric aspect, but also the potential to see how we could scale Yeah, within the fishing industry globally.
Jared Simmons 13:55
Yeah. Oh, wow. That's amazing. And the basic premise of the technology is in the fishing industry, you try to catch certain fish and not catch other fish. And one of the big problems is that you haul in your nets, and if they follow the wrong fish that creates yield issues. What do you do with the wrong the, all those other things? And so safety net technologies allows Fisher's to catch the right fish and only the right fish? Is that right?
Nadia 14:19
Exactly. Yeah. Thanks for doing the pitch. Exactly.
Jared Simmons 14:22
I'm just trying to make sure the standard, it's a brilliant, simple, elegant is the word I'm looking for. It's a very elegant solution to a real problem that hasn't ramifications well beyond what what I think the average person would really understand and internalize.
Nadia 14:38
And it's exactly that. I think it's it's the simplicity of it, right? So it's not a new, sexy, overly complicated technological product that needs to be introduced into the industry. We use light as the attraction and repulsion mechanism of these devices. And so light has actually been around for centuries. Yeah, in terms of the fishing industry, it's just hasn't scaled The way that it needs to do with the industry because a lot of that research is done in labs and in scientific reports. And so how do you then translate that to industry to make it something that's a product that they want to use?
Jared Simmons 15:12
Right, right. And yeah, and that's that whole continuum where, you know, on the benchtop proof of concept is that innovation, there's a whole argument and discussion around that. And, you know, okay, taking something that was already proven, or already known and putting it into the market, it doesn't matter. It's solving a business problem solving not only a business problem, but a life problem, a human centered profit. I mean, that's not an easy industry. No, it's not a physically easy industry, and it doesn't have a world of transferable skills. Right? Exactly. If you've been fishing for 20 years, that's what your skill set is. So being able to help folks like that, take their mastery, and get more out of it. People in that industry are, are brilliant, and the things they're able to do. And the skills they bring to the table are valuable. And, and so to be able to help them capture more fish, you know, raw fish, whatever, you're helping them get more out of the skills and the expertise that they've honed over the years.
Nadia 16:12
Yeah. And actually, that's another good point, the fact that there are these brilliant, you know, fishers out there, and the knowledge that they have and that they sit on. And maybe that's another part of the answer of what is innovation, innovation is not doing it alone, right? So sure, we've got our engineers and our business modelers, and, you know, thinking about it from one aspect that at the end of the day, it requires their input to make sure that this is something that works for them. It also requires the input of like regulators of making sure that our technology fits in line with that, right, it needs to fit in with all the different stakeholders and work together in order to make it an innovation that lasts and can be adopted. Right. And it can't just be done by one. So true.
Jared Simmons 16:54
So true. And putting the right human at the center is the key to all of that. So I think the fact that you all keep the right humans at the center of this human centered approach is also key. And I really admire you all for that. That's a wonderful technology with so many great benefits. And the human centered portion of it is only it's just, it's just, you know, icing on amazing cake. Yeah, of course. The other thing I wanted to ask about safety net is hearing you talk about it, you know, I can see you I've seen your face light up as you talk about it. I don't remember you talking about fish before, you know, back when I knew you and Cincinnati. So yeah, I think I think another aspect of innovation Tell me if I'm wrong here, but is it? It doesn't have to be domain specific, like you can fall in love with the with the impact exactly when something is innovative. And it's not necessarily about Oh, do I love fish? Do I eat fish? What do I know about fish?
Nadia 17:51
I still don't know enough about fish. People often ask me like, should I be eating? I don't know. No, and but yeah, exactly. That it's the impact. So I mean, I rely on like our marine biologists within the team and our scientists network and the fishing industry to really know those those areas, because I'm like, I'm even after five, six years, I still don't know anything compared to them. Right. Right. But for me what what the driver is, is that impact? So I'm a bit of an impact junkie, in that sense. Yeah. And that's why I got involved, right, because I was like, I have no idea about the fishing. But I can see with kind of doing a little bit of market research that there is a really big opportunity here to make that impact happen at scale. And that's what's exciting.
Jared Simmons 18:45
Yeah, yeah. Well, All the best to you all. It's a worthwhile venture in so many different areas. And I'm excited. And I hope you have lots of continued growth and success, both. Shifting gears a bit I want to ask you about, and I've mentioned it a few times, but travel is that would you consider that a hobby of yours? It's more of an addiction. Yeah. Okay. So I'd like to, I'd like to talk to people about hobbies on this show. Because there's a lot of thinking, the way you view innovation come that comes through and sort of what you do in your spare time. And so tell me about travel.
Nadia 19:21
Oh, wow. I call it an addiction. But I think it's also something that has always been a constant in my life. So again, I had the opportunity of, of traveling and moving a lot as a kid, because of my dad's jobs. And because of that, getting to see the world and so for me a constant was that about on average, every two years or so we would pack up and move to another country. And I just kind of thought that was the norm
Jared Simmons 19:49
to another country, not right to Nebraska.
Nadia 19:54
I moved to the US when I was 1314 years old and it was the first time that I was like going to public school. Kids who, you know, lived there their whole life. And I was like, Oh, so this is what normal is. But I think because I had an I guess that's like the rooted thing in me where I just I need that change. I'm an impact junkie and a change junkie, basically, yeah, where every few years I get, you know, cold feet and might need to go find the next big thing that I can help with. So yeah,
Jared Simmons 20:24
yeah, yeah. Now that change, like you said, it doesn't always have to be physical, you know, can be made through travel. But I think you mentioned earlier that that change can also be you know, you can you can find ways to change your Outlook, change your perspective, change your point of view, change the people you're surrounding yourself with, and progressive change. I can definitely relate to that.
Nadia 20:47
Yeah. And I think change can be really healthy, keeps you on your toes, you know, you learn new skills, you adapt, and therefore, I think it makes you that. Yeah, open to to others and understanding what what kind of challenges are there that are maybe outside of your own realm?
Jared Simmons 21:04
Yeah, yeah. I couldn't agree more. And it's, it's that kind of attitude toward change. I think that really determines how people react because we don't choose change. Right? contents, okay. Yeah, yeah. Change junkie. Yeah, yeah, some of us choose change. That's right. But, you know, change comes to all of us, whether we choose it or not. And I think just having that positive and proactive attitude toward change is important in life, but also in business as you're going through your career, because you can't avoid change, there's going to be reorganizations companies are going to, you know, be formed, they're gonna fail, they're gonna, you know, you're gonna join startups, they're not gonna work. It's just all sorts of different versions of change.
Nadia 21:44
And, and again, I feel like this is probably going off into a tangent, but even with things like, for example, mental health being so important, right? Where, if change, you can either be rigid to change, and that can really, really impact you badly. And you don't kind of like bounce back from that, versus being open to it, whether it's good or bad initially, you can just kind of form with it, and then learn how to react healthily to that so that you can adjust and adapt. That can be helpful to to yourself as well, then. Yeah,
Jared Simmons 22:15
yeah, that mental health is never a tangible way in talking about that anything involving people. Yeah, you're exactly right. preserving and protecting your mental health in any way you can, is going to make you more resilient to change. It's going to allow you to approach change with different with a different point of view and an understanding that not everybody's in the same place from a mental health standpoint. Yeah. And as you're changing things, understanding what that might feel like to different different people that are in different places, as it relates to mental health. Yeah. It's the crux of everything we do. And so I'm glad you brought that up. That's a great point. So one more question. It's been a great conversation, I have a dozen questions poking around in my head, but I'll ask this question. Do you have any advice for innovators out there people who, you know, hear your background and think oh, yeah, that's, that's a great, you know, I'd love to have a career like that, I'd love to have experiences like that. Now, any advice?
Nadia 23:17
Yeah. take it with a grain of salt. It might not be everything for everyone. But I think to wrap all that stuff up is it's understanding, like, really understanding the root of the problem. And that requires empathy. Right? So the human centric aspect of it, but really putting yourself in someone else's shoes, and not just their shoes that just their lives. Yeah, and seeing what it's like to experience life from their world, and what kind of issues they face is, I think, the, the seed of what then innovation can be born from because you as an individual can come in with all these extra or additional or different types of experiences, and, and backgrounds and advantages that you can then be like, Oh, actually, you know, this is that's what I've seen in my life that could be applied to this problem here. But you won't know that know that until you're in that person's situation, right? So one is get to know the customers, the people, the beneficiaries that you're trying to serve, and really getting into their lives and understanding how they operate and what their needs are. And then yeah, I think not necessarily needing something new and sexy. Like, I think that a lot of innovation can be brought from your own skills being applied in different methods. So it doesn't have to be your own startup, like find things that you're passionate about and see where the missing gaps are, where you can help fill versus having to create something brand new and from start and by yourself, I think would be a good good start.
Jared Simmons 24:55
Yeah, that's amazing advice. That is a I love that. And thank you for sharing it with me and with the listeners and I appreciate your time, Nadia and I know you're busy and you're in a way different timezone. And so I appreciate you making time to, to chat with me and with everyone and, and thank you.
Nadia 25:16
No worries. Thank you and yeah, I always make time for you this busy is such a buzzword, but I think everyone's busy these days. So it's not an excuse.
Jared Simmons 25:26
I'm with y'all mad. It's uh, yeah, but I can't think of immersing that throw one of them said, it's not that busy. It's what are we busy about? Right? That's what I try to focus on as well. Oh, thank you for a wonderful conversation. And I'm just excited to see where we're thinking and technologies goes from here. Thank you, Jared. Cheers. All right, take care. We'd love to hear your thoughts about this week's show. You can drop us a line on twitter at Outlast LLC or follow us on LinkedIn where we're OUTLAST Consulting. Until next time, keep innovating. Whatever that means.