Episode 48 of “What is Innovation?” is here! Jared talks with Galen Bingham, known as The Leadership Strategist, founder of Kiln Global Coaching & Consulting and has 30 years of experience working with Fortune 500 companies. In this episode Galen shares how knowledge, imagination, business building, and values drives innovation. We also dive into how the West and the East differ in terms of time spent for strategic planning.
Galen Bingham is the founder of Kiln Global Coaching & Consulting. Known as the leadership strategist, he is a leadership trainer, retreat facilitator and certified executive coach with 30 years of experience working with Fortune 500 companies.
More about our guest:
Galen Bingham is the founder of Kiln Global Coaching & Consulting. Known as the leadership strategist, he is a leadership trainer, retreat facilitator and certified executive coach with 30 years of experience working with Fortune 500 companies. He is consistently sought out to advise or serve on premiere non-profit boards where, Galen provides oversight in governance, board development, CEO selection and organizational leadership. He has coached or consulted with over 875 senior executives, CEOs and non-profit leaders across 7 countries. He is a best selling author of IMPACT: A Leadership Fable: Your Power To Make A Lasting Difference. Galen also hosts the Whiskey, Jazz and Leadership podcast.
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Episode Guide:
2:22 - What Is Innovation
2:45 - Creative Imagination: 2 Types
4:17 - Risk Reward: creative vs synthetic imagination
5:25 - Pressures of Wall Street
5:39 - West vs East: Running a business
6:27 - What drives the difference between the West and East in long-term planning
7:33 - Catalogue of Life and scenario catalogs
9:11 - Developed Courage
10:57 - Cultivating 'freedom' at work and managing implications of 'the fall'
14:01 - Unlocking the drive of confidence with decades of experiences
15:19 - Old paradigm lost: collecting lessons from life
17:45 - Ubiquitous world: impact to wonder and innovation
18:39 - Data, Information, Knowledge, and Henry Ford
21:19 - What isn't Innovation?
22:18 - Implications of value in innovation; is 'interesting' innovation?
24:32 - Focus: the 'Now' vs the future
25:57 - Value in having an objective point of view
26:45 - Coaching: helping navigate what you already know and how
27:48 - Finding the 'language'
29:59 - Defining value
32:30 - Advice for innovators
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Resources Mentioned:
Books:
Galen's podcast:
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OUTLAST Consulting offers professional development and strategic advisory services in the areas of innovation and diversity management.
Jared Simmons 00:05
Hello and welcome to What Is Innovation? The podcast that explores the reality of a word that is in danger of losing its meaning altogether. This podcast is produced by OUTLAST Consulting, LLC, a boutique consultancy that helps companies use innovation principles to solve their toughest business problems. I'm your host, Jared Simmons, and I'm so excited to have Galen Bingham.
Jared Simmons 00:30
Galen Bingham is the founder of Kiln Global Coaching & Consulting. Known as the leadership strategist, Galen is a leadership trainer, retreat facilitator and certified executive coach who offers insight from 30 years of operating experience with Fortune 500 companies like Kraft Foods, Imperial Sugar, and the Coca Cola Company. He also has six years of experience as a franchise owner of Menchie’s Frozen Yogurt. He is consistently sought out to advise or serve on premiere non-profit boards where, Galen provides oversight in governance, board development, CEO selection and organizational leadership. He has coached or consulted with over 875 senior executives, CEOs and non-profit leaders across 7 countries.
Jared Simmons 01:12
Galen holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration from Southern Nazarene University, an MBA degree from Rice University and Certification In Inquiry-based Leadership from Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He is a best selling author of IMPACT: A Leadership Fable: Your Power To Make A Lasting Difference and the host of the Whiskey, Jazz and Leadership podcast. He is husband to Monique for 26 years and father to Landis who is a freshman Bio-Chemistry major at Spelman College. Galen, welcome to the show, my friend, I am so excited about this conversation. I just really appreciate you making the time to talk and I can't wait to dive in.
Galen Bingham 01:51
Yeah, boy, I tell you, I always look forward to any conversation that you and I have because we have a lot of fun. We touch on a lot of common areas and somehow I ended up smarter at the end of that conversation than I was at the beginning of that conversation so I thank you for that.
Jared Simmons 02:08
I much appreciate it, you're probably listening to yourself. That's what does that. So why don't we dive right in? I know we're going to go out all over the map on this one, which I'm excited about but let's just dive right in. What is in your mind innovation?
Galen Bingham 02:25
I think innovation is creative or synthetic imagination to enhance value.
Jared Simmons 02:34
Creative or synthetic, tell me about that. Creative or synthetic, we're going to take it piece by piece. Break that down for me. Creative or synthetic imagination, I like that.
Galen Bingham 02:45
So in my mind, creative imagination is broken down into two types. There's either creative imagination, which is something coming totally out of nowhere, you have no idea where it came from. You were just inspired, you had a dream, and this thing won't leave you alone. Whereas, synthetic imagination is taking things that have been before and using them in a different way or putting things together that weren't together before or taking things apart, that we're always together. In short, you're reconfiguring things that have already existed and you're doing it in a different way. Both of those are important. Most people, specifically in corporate America, which is my background, we get really, really good at using synthetic imagination, and creative imagination, we usually don't use it a whole lot. When we do use it, we usually get called crazy. No one really wants to invest in your creative, imaginative idea because we can't find five other companies who have done something similar before.
Jared Simmons 03:59
It sounds like it might be harder, tell me if this if I'm going down the right path, it might be harder for people to see the value, in the near term, to see the value on the creative imagination, versus the synthetic has more of a known kind of path that here's how you create value. Here's how you put this together.
Galen Bingham 04:17
Yeah, I think that it has a lot to do with the risk reward. There's a lot more risk associated with creative imagination. Because you want to see evidence that this thing is going to work. Clearly, you can't be the smartest person in the world. So there has to be someone else who's thought of this. Therefore show me those people, show me what they've made for from it, especially if you're asking me to invest in it. Show me the return on investment that they've made from this idea. That's easier to do with synthetic imagination. Creative imagination is more of this just seems like a good idea. My heart is telling me this is what we should be doing and that's what really hard to sell upstream.
Jared Simmons 05:01
Definitely. I think another part of that I mean, the risk reward element of that; I think you're spot on in how that plays out differently for creative versus synthetic. I also think that in this corporate world that you and I both professionally grew up in, the quarterly cycle imposed by Wall Street, does not play nicely with creative imagination.
Galen Bingham 05:24
I think you're absolutely right. I think the pressures of Wall Street puts a lot of undue stress on any type of innovation. I think it causes leaders to make decisions that they would not ordinarily make. I used to talk a lot about how business is run in eastern civilizations versus in the West. Whereas in the West, you know, everything is quarterly, maybe annually. If you really want to demonstrate your ability to think long term, you're going to show them a three year plan. Whereas in eastern civilizations, in eastern business, it's about the 100 year business plan. It's about the generational direction that we want this organization to take. It's about how will this business idea impact society. When you hear a business's doing that here in the United States, you call them Mavericks. Because it's just so foreign to anything that has ever talked about in the mainstream.
Jared Simmons 06:28
What do you think drives that in terms of the difference in the time horizons? Eastern civilizations are a lot older than America. America as a country is only a couple 100 years old. So if you think in about 100 years, that's half as long as the country has been around. Do you think that plays a role in it?
Galen Bingham 06:44
I think the age of the civilization plays a big role in it. It is hard for me to think back 30 years ago. But for someone like my mother in law, who's 80 years old, yeah, she can remember when she was 50. She can think back to that point and therefore projecting forward she's thinking about, okay, so how will my grandkids pay for college? She's thinking about those kinds of things. Whereas my sister, who's been married for a little over five years, for her, she's thinking, wow, what's the next six months look like? In her planning.
Galen Bingham 07:23
I've got considerably more than five years of marriage. So I'm somewhere in between that generational and that six month horizon. But yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. Something that you and I have talked about before, is the number of scenarios that you have in your catalogue of life. The number of things that you can pull from that will give you comfort to lean into this creative idea. Because you've seen so many different things work out, as opposed to if you don't have a very extensive scenario catalog, you want evidence that this thing is going to work, especially if I've got invest money,
Jared Simmons 08:04
That's a great way to think about it relative to scenarios because it puts you in the mindset oof the investor. If you have an investor who's had that sort of broader walk through the corporate world through life, and has seen success in a lot of different forms, creative, imagination, synthetic imagination, those things are less disruptive to their model of what success could look like in the future, because they have those views. If you think about that, that profile probably exists more in a VC type of resume, than the resume of someone who managed funds or done the finance thing and risen to a level where they're entrusted with billions and trillions of dollars, they probably haven't had that random walk where they ran a non profit for a little while or did a franchise, ran a franchise for a little while, did these different things to broaden their understanding of what success could look like.
Galen Bingham 09:06
Yeah, I think you are absolutely on something here. The word that keeps coming to my mind is this idea of developed courage. If we think about our own corporate career, I was in corporate America for over 30 years, you're something very similar. I don't know the actual number of years, but I'm thinking we're probably in the same club.
Jared Simmons 09:31
We're close, yeah.
Galen Bingham 09:33
If I think back to when I had my first job, I didn't really have enough courage to lean into anything very different than what my boss told me I was supposed to do. Whereas today, I've got a relatively limited staff that I work with in my entrepreneurial venture, and they're young, but if they come to me with an idea, I've got enough courage that there's nothing that they can get me into that I don't believe I can get out of.
Galen Bingham 10:06
Let's play with this idea! Who knows there might... there's a lot of upside to this idea. Let's play with it. I have this courage, this confidence in myself, not quite sure if it's warranted or not but there's no way they could screw up bad enough that I can't fix it if I have to. That's because of my lived experiences and therefore, I'm willing to play with more creative ideas, I don't need to see the white paper that shows that this thing is going to work, I don't need to hear about four companies that have done this exact same thing or something similar to it.
Jared Simmons 10:47
You talked about that, all it comes to mind is freedom. I can imagine that. Not having that would be a more constructive way of living and operating. I hear a lot of freedom in the way you operate, and lead your team and move through the corporate world. Now. How did you cultivate that sort of sense of freedom?
Galen Bingham 11:07
It was from just living. It was from; you gave me this phrase and so I'm going to use it as much as I can so hopefully, I can gain ownership of it. But it was about this catalog of scenarios. It wasn't something that I built intentionally, because I wasn't smart enough to know that this was something that I needed. But it was just living and then going from this period of where I needed to have, anytime we would make a customer presentation, I would spend all week developing this presentation. Then I would spend like three days working on the backup to that presentation. Then I'd spend another day and a half working on the backup to the backup. You look it up and I've spent more more time preparing for the question that will likely never ever come than the actual presentation itself. The next phase that I went through was trusting myself to have the backup, trusting myself to be able to answer any question that someone might come up with, based upon my experience, that was the second phase that I went through. Then I intentionally went through this phase of having confidence in my ability to wing it and by winging it, I don't mean absence of preparation but just having confidence that my lived experiences would be enough to handle anything that might come up, because I took this action.
Jared Simmons 12:47
To be able to manage the implications of the fall.
Galen Bingham 12:50
Right, manage the implications of the fallout that might be associated with a decision that I had prepared to make. Now that brings me to this phase I'm trying to live in now where I just have confidence in my ability to fix anything that might come out, I just don't believe that there could be anything that could happen, that would be so devastating that I can't fix. There's a bit of Superman syndrome still but I'm willing to roll the dice to see if this creative idea might actually bring some positive upside. That playing with tried and true ideas may still bring but they're going to bring slower, the return is slower when you use tried and true ideas.
Jared Simmons 13:37
Well said, I can imagine a world where there are people out there with a version of your set of experiences, with a version of your career view that might not have necessarily taken the time to look back and draw that through line to build that confidence to be able to draw on it the way that you do. I wonder if there's a way, if you might think about a way to help people who've got the 30 years of experience in big companies have done amazing things, but haven't found a way to unlock that to drive the confidence to be able to do the amazing things that you're doing?
Galen Bingham 14:19
Wow, great question. I don't know that I have the exact succinct answer to that question. I would suggest that the way that they play fully is by trying to play more fully each time. I don't think that we are ever going to see a time in corporate America, specifically here in the United States, where the company that you started working for at 25 or 20. Two or whatever the case, in my case was 21, is the company that you're going to retire from right. I think companies have stopped investing in gold watches. That's just not available anymore. If you see yourself as on this journey, collecting experiences that will help you ultimately, in who you are intended to become, I think that's the path that might be worth evaluating.
Galen Bingham 15:19
Quick conversation that I had with some colleagues of mine, literally right before I switched over to have this conversation with you, I was talking with a couple of executive coaches, and we're peers, really brilliant guys and ladie. We were talking about how the old paradigm of we're collecting lessons or trying to learn a lesson from life, I think that that's gone. I think now we're in the space of trying to become, because when you think back to when you were in the sixth grade, for me, that was 150 years ago, learning, you demonstrate your knowledge by being able to give them the answer that they were looking for. They ask a question, how quickly can you give them the answer that they're looking for? There was a lot of memorization, you would memorize. When I get this question, here's the answer. I don't think knowledge is demonstrated that way anymore. I think knowledge is demonstrated by: Do you have the resources to get the answer? Do you know where to go to find the answer? How many people can you collaborate to build a better answer? I think today's youth, that's what they're learning. My daughter is a freshman in college right now. What she's learning? I can't even pronounce. I can't even pronounce the things that she's learning deeply. She will say, and she will tell you, why wonder we have Google. Why should we wonder about something? We've got Google, we've got resources to get the answer. I don't need to know these things the same way that you had to know them in the sixth grade and I reflect on that wisdom every day in the work that I do.
Jared Simmons 17:15
It can come from anywhere it came in.
Galen Bingham 17:18
It really can.
Jared Simmons 17:19
That is wisdom, indeed. That term wonder, as we talk about innovation, and we talk about imagination, if you look back at the Mount Rushmore of innovators, Walt Disney is probably up there. An imagination and wonder were his stock and trade in terms of how he willed this thing that was in his head into being whether it was a cartoon or Disneyland or Disney World. In a world where knowledge has reached almost zero value because it's ubiquitous. What does that do to wonder and what are the implications on innovation?
Galen Bingham 17:57
Well, the only thing that I would possibly modify is, I don't know that knowledge has been devalued. I think data has been commoditized. I think information has been commoditized but knowledge, I think, still has value.
Jared Simmons 18:17
Help me and my listeners with the leap from data and information to knowledge.
Galen Bingham 18:22
For me, I'm bastardizing, the definition and the distinction between knowledge and wisdom because I can know the answer, but not know what to do with the answer. There's always value in knowing what to do with the answer. There's a well known story about Henry Ford and supposedly he was brought to trial, because someone put in the paper that he was an imbecile, that he was not very intelligent, that he was just not very bright and he sued that reporter for slander. The reporter said, no, no, let's go ahead and go to court, I can prove that I wasn't slanderous. I was telling the truth. You're just you're not very bright. They put him on the stand and the lawyer asked him a bunch of questions. How many people died in the Revolutionary War? How many cubic centimeters did the Ark have? just all of these things and so finally, Henry Ford said, first of all, I am in the business of creating automobiles. How in the world do any of these questions that you've asked me? How will they help me create this thing that I've committed my life to do? If they won't help me, why should I clutter my brain with these facts that don't contribute to this thing that I've committed my life to do? Then he went on to say, if I needed to answer any of those questions that you proposing to me I've got a switchboard in my office with 27 buttons, each connected to a person who could call at my command and give me the answer to any of these questions that you've asked.
Jared Simmons 20:14
Wow! That was 100 years ago.
Galen Bingham 20:16
That was 100 years ago. Well, I think you could take that same story, switch out the switchboard place in technology, Google, or any other search engine and this exact same thing. That's what the youth is learning, how to leverage information how to leverage data, but apply it to what you do with that data and for me, that's knowledge. That's really the purpose of innovation is to do something with it.
Jared Simmons 20:51
Well said, that's super helpful. That data and the information falls short of knowledge until there's an application.
Galen Bingham 20:57
Yes, I believe.
Jared Simmons 20:59
Once there's an application for it, it moves from the realm of data information to knowledge, because it's got a context, it's got a way of fitting into driving value or creation.
Galen Bingham 21:11
Exactly. That was the last part of my original statement, leveraging creative or synthetic imagination to enhance value. I think the enhance value part is incredibly, incredibly important, at least for me, because if you were to ask me, what is innovation not? I would say anything that does not enhance value is not innovation. If it doesn't enhance value, then it's just interesting.
Galen Bingham 21:44
There are a lot of ideas, creative ideas, but they don't enhance value for anyone or they don't enhance value in the way that the consumer or the user perceives value. Therefore to the person that's creating this idea, it's just interesting. It's just cool. That's great. Fantastic. Still worthwhile. But let's not confuse that with innovation if it doesn't enhance value.
Jared Simmons 22:17
I couldn't agree more. What do you think the implications are? When people don't have value as part of their definition of innovation? Particularly, fortune 500 companies that you've worked for? Do you see situations where that value piece where interesting gets inadvertently subbed for innovation? What are the implications of that?
Galen Bingham 22:40
The short term implications could be that you invest in things that don't lead anywhere. That you distract your organization to work on things that don't advance your mission or your purpose. I think those are the short term implications. The longer term implications is if you build a track record of pursuing things that are interesting, but not innovative, then you're going to end up losing the brand definition that you have in the minds of your consumers. You're going to lose your way, you're going to cease to exist, or at least cease to be important in the mind of your consumers. That's the beginning of the death spiral, as I used to call it, that you see organizations, failed organizations move into this death spiral, where they make a bunch of bad decisions, they spend more money against those bad decisions, because they don't want to give up on the 3 million that they've already spent so let's put in another 5 million to save that bad decision. Now, they're running out of cash flow and because they don't have cash, they're going out and pestering their customers in the wrong way. Now, their customers don't like them anymore. In order to save that the guests spend more money and.. it's just, you never really recover.
Jared Simmons 23:58
The other side of that spiral I live, which is run out of money, go save us some money, go make this product cheaper, but don't make it worse, make it cheaper, and go back to the suppliers. We need to save money there as well, because we're bleeding cash, trying to figure out how to do exactly what you're describing and it spiral, it just accelerates.
Galen Bingham 24:25
Then once you get to that point, you start looking internally, and what are some of the first divisions that you cut. Some of the first innovations that you cut have to do with what's going to happen 10 years from now, because I can't focus on 10 years. I'm trying to figure out the next three weeks.
Jared Simmons 24:42
Yep, that's right.
Galen Bingham 24:43
But because you're not focused on the next 10 years. Now you're not prepared for the future. Death is inevitable. You're just prolonging it. You're just in this death spiral. I've seen so many companies go through that spiral. I teach this stuff. I talk about this stuff and even in my retail business, as I reflect back on, I can see when I was in the spiral, it was just a matter of time.
Jared Simmons 25:08
The dynamics are bigger than any one of us and that's the challenge with it is, when everybody's in the spiral together, no one sees it. It's kind of like the rotation of the Earth, right? We're all here, so no one sees the earth spinning but when you go to space, you see it turning, but everybody's in that spiral. It takes someone that's not in it, to be able to say, hey, you know, this thing you're on, it's not taking you to a good place. There's always been this duality of what role did coaches play? What role did consultants play in these situations, because you get any situations, money gets tight. The first thing you do is cut back on external expenses. But that shuts off your view from space. That, I think, is another form of accelerating that spiral, you've identified, I've never thought about it in those turns,
Galen Bingham 25:57
I think that there is always value in having an objective point of view into what you're actually going through, even if it's not just a point of view. You talked about coaching and very often my best coaching is when I am in a situation that I know nothing about. Therefore, I have nothing to offer, except the space and the ability to help you navigate what you already know you need to do. Because if I have a point of view, it's going to be so tempting for me to share that point of view, especially if you ask. Hey Galen, what do you think I should do? Hey, my mom says I'm brilliant. Let me share with you what you should do.
Galen Bingham 26:45
Coaching, I found has a lot to do with helping you navigate what you already know you need to do. There are two things associated with that for me, number one, we all know what it is that we need to do. I just absolutely believe that we all know, we know. But we can't necessarily always find the words to articulate what we know, especially here in the West. We believe that if we can't answer that question, if we can't articulate what it is that we know that we must really just be imagining it. We don't really know it if we can't explain it. Well, that's not true. That's not true at all. It's just that the part of the brain that controls knowing is not always the part of the brain that controls language. That's like asking someone, why do you love the person that you decided to marry? Explain that to me? I don't know that I can explain that to you but I still know it, it's still real. Part of my job as a coach is to help my clients find the language to articulate what they already know. I give them the language.
Jared Simmons 27:57
That's good stuff.
Galen Bingham 27:59
Then once we find the language, if we do it right, usually my clients will have what I call a Moses moment, when they think, oh, there's no way I'm supposed to do that. Clearly, you must be talking about my brother, you must be talking about somebody else. That's not me, no, I'm not supposed to be the one doing that. Once they hit that phase, my job then shifts to giving them the courage, helping them find the courage to do what they already know, that they were put on this planet to do. Coincidentally, that tends to be the lion's share of the work that I'm called to do, it is giving people the courage to do what they already know that they were put here to do. I think that fits in with your question.
Jared Simmons 28:47
It definitely does it, it expands on the theme I was trying to explore, you took it to a whole new level. Thanks for sharing that. I view things on sort of blank levels, the individual level, the team level, department, organization, world. When we work on these individual and team levels, we often call it coaching. Then somewhere between that level and the world, it becomes something else, consulting, entrepreneurship, all these other things. But I think the thread of innovation runs through all of it. In the same sort of vein, what you're describing to me has a lot of elements. The way you talking about the way you coach, I'm hearing your definition of innovation, throughout the way you coach in terms of the creative and the synthetic imagination, taking people through that process almost sounds like synthetic to start to get to the realization and then helping them trust their creative. I just love that definition that you have, (it) fits whatever level you're trying to drive, enhance value.
Galen Bingham 29:20
I think you're right. I've never thought about it that way. But that is really at the core of what I try to do all with an eye on, how do I enhance value for my client or for the organization? The one term that we haven't defined yet, is value. How do you define value? I don't know that. I've come up with a succinct definition of value. The reason that I have is because value is defined by the end user, I can offer things that I suspect will add value, I can offer things that I hope will add value, I can offer things that would add value to me if I were on the other end. But if the user doesn't see that, if the user doesn't understand how they benefit from that, that is not really adding value, there's potential value. There's potential value but if the end user doesn't see the benefit, realize the benefit, and then give you credit for the benefit, then it's just interesting.
Jared Simmons 31:06
It's almost the virtuous cycle, that is the opposite of that spiral that you were talking about. That you start creating value and they see that you've helped them create that and they give you credit for it. It gives you the space to create more value.
Galen Bingham 31:19
Exactly. That's good stuff.
Jared Simmons 31:21
You and I have been in this consumer goods world for so long, we think about consumers and customers and all those things almost intuitively. I don't think people always connect that value equation. I think that's a universal value equation, I think we're fortunate to come from a place where that's the standard definition of value. But bringing in the coaching, bringing it into other environments, I think is a competitive advantage. Because I think it's easy for experts to fall in love with their definitions, and to set their definition of value around that.
Galen Bingham 31:53
I think you're right. I love the way you phrased that in, experts are falling in love with their own definition. I think that that is absolutely seductive. Because we play in the space of thought leadership, we all want to believe that we're brilliant, we all want to believe that we're the next big thing and we should believe that. But let's not confuse that for actually creating innovation that will enhance value for the end user.
Jared Simmons 32:21
Well said, I know we're coming up on time. I don't know where the time when I say that at the end of all of our conversations. But I can't let you get away without asking if you have any advice for innovators.
Galen Bingham 32:35
I think I go back to my original definition of what is innovation. Understanding that there is a creative and a synthetic part of imagination. I believe that imagination fuels innovation, it's the fuel for it. But there are two elements of it, as long as we are focused on enhancing value. Something that you said earlier would be my advice, learn from the synthetic, it's really, really important. That's the foundation but then trust your creative. We all get hunches from time to time. Usually we say, ah, that's interesting. That's a coincidence and we don't ever do anything with it. The more that you can trust those hunches, the more that you can act on that inspiration, the more that you can put some diligence behind this crazy idea that you came up with, the more you can accelerate the growth and accelerate the value that we're all looking for. That would be my advice, to build up your synthetic, but trust your creative. With you being a music guy, I can't resist this opportunity to quote one of my favorite musicians in answering this question, Mr. Miles Davis. He said, in order to be a great musician, you got to learn everything you can and then forget everything that you've learned and just show up. That would be my advice to innovators. Learn everything that you can and then forget everything that you've learned and just show up.
Jared Simmons 34:04
You can't end on anything better than that. Thank you for sharing that. A Miles Davis quote is never out of place. I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to speak with us and share your insights. There's 1000 things we could talk about. We could talk about football, but now is not the time to discuss them. I'm still recovering from the national championship game. Galen, I really appreciate your time and your friendship and your inadvertent mentorship, whether you know it or not. We will put in the show notes, all the different places people can can gain some more of their insight in your mentorship, whether it's through your books, through your podcast: Whiskey Jazz and Leadership podcast, or just taking in what you have to offer on LinkedIn, which is an amazing follow there. Thank you very much for your time and I'm looking forward to the next time.
Galen Bingham 34:59
Absolutely, man, I'm looking forward as well. As I promised at the beginning of this, I feel smarter. Because of this time I spent with you, man, you have absolutely up to my game and my mom will be impressed.
Jared Simmons 35:13
Well said, I thank you for that. Until next time, we will keep it rolling.
Galen Bingham 35:17
Take care.
Jared Simmons 35:18
All right, take care.
Jared Simmons 35:24
We'd love to hear your thoughts about this week's show. You can drop us a line on Twitter at OUTLAST LLC, or follow us on LinkedIn where we're OUTLAST Consulting. Until next time, keep innovating. Whatever that means