Episode 36 of “What is Innovation?” is here! Jared talks with Marcus Sheridan, digital sales and marketing pioneer, and NY Times-recognized speaker and author on innovation, marketing, transparency, and trust.
Marcus Sheridan, digital sales and marketing pioneer, and author of They Ask, You Answer and The Visual Sale: How to Use Video to Explode Sales, Drive Marketing, and Grow Your Business in a Virtual World.
More about our guest:
Marcus Sheridan is an international keynote speaker with a unique ability to excite, engage, and motivate live audiences. He also works with hundreds of businesses, helping them to become the most trusted voice in their industry. Marcus has been featured in multiple industry publications, including the New York Times, which featured Marcus as a "web marketing guru," and Forbes, which named Marcus one of 20 "Speakers You Don't Want to Miss" in 2017.
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Episode Guide:
1:19 - What is Innovation
1:39 - What isn't Innovation
1:58 - Regurgitation
4:04 - Invention and Innovation
5:46 - Innovating as a swimming pool company
8:37 - Ignorance is not bliss in consumer marketing
10:22 - Subway: one of the most innovative companies worldwide
11:32 - The process as a fiberglass pool manufacturer
14:26 - CarMax: innovation
17:34 - 2-step process with businesses
19:46 - Principles from They Ask You Answer
21:51 - B2B vs B2C
23:11 - Trust, growth, innovation, and Kodak
30:03 - Advice for innovators
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Resources Mentioned:
Books:
Brands Mentioned: Subway, CarMax
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OUTLAST Consulting offers professional development and strategic advisory services in the areas of innovation and diversity management.
Jared Simmons 00:05
Hello, and welcome to What Is Innovation. The podcast that explores the reality of a word that is in danger of losing its meaning altogether. This podcast is produced by OUTLAST Consulting LLC, a boutique consultancy that helps companies use innovation principles to solve their toughest business problems. I'm your host, Jared Simmons, and I'm so excited to have Marcus Sheridan. Marcus Sheridan is a digital sales and marketing pioneer. He is an international keynote speaker with a unique ability to excite, engage and motivate live audiences. He also works with hundreds of businesses, helping them to become the most trusted voice in their industry. Marcus has been featured in multiple industry publications, including the New York Times, which featured Marcus as a web marketing guru, and Forbes, which named Marcus one of 20 speakers you don't want to miss in 2017. He is the author of They Ask You Answer and The Visual Sale: How to use video to explode sales, drive marketing and grow your business in a virtual world. Marcus, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.
Marcus Sheridan 01:10
Jared, my man. I'm glad to be here. We're gonna have a good conversation.
Jared Simmons 01:13
I don't doubt that, I have a good feeling about it. Let's dive right in. I like to start every show with the first question, the only question, what is innovation?
Marcus Sheridan 01:24
To me, it's anything that is new or improved that helps. That's really it. It's new or improved that helps... a person, place, thing, idea, just go down the gamut.
Jared Simmons 01:39
So tell me what isn't innovation?
Marcus Sheridan 01:42
Well, you know what, that to me is the interesting one. To me, what innovation is not, is a regurgitation that doesn't make life better for someone or something.
Jared Simmons 01:58
You say regurgitation. Tell me more about that.
Marcus Sheridan 02:01
Well, there's a difference between regurgitating in a way that's not helpful versus saying something in a way, where, although it may seem like the same idea, you set it in a way that the light bulb finally came on for everyone else. Let me give you a perfect case in point, a lot of people have heard of Simon Sinek: Start with why. Simon, here's what's funny, this is a dude, that is getting paid probably at this point now $100,000 per speech. He did one of the top 10 TED talks of all time, he talked about this golden circle. Inside a golden circle, there was why. It's the what, the how, and the why. What he did, he explained something that inherently everybody knows, in a way, though, that everybody could understand it. So we help the situation. It wasn't a straight regurgitation, because he put his stamp on what was just basic human psychology and human needs, in this case in the workplace, so as to move your team to want to be a part of something bigger or special but he didn't invent anything different. I've written a couple books, this stuff that I say has been said before, I just happen to say it in a way that makes everybody say, hey, that makes so much sense. Why are we not doing that? It's viewed as innovative. It's not new but it improves, it helps. It makes it better and that's what makes it innovative.
Jared Simmons 03:47
I see. We were talking before we started recording about (how) we come from different perspectives on innovation. I grew up planning, building, developing things, marketers, salespeople, and then went off in marketing. A common thread, I think, between what you're describing and the way I grew up in it, and world of innovation is the separation between invention and innovation. You don't have to invent something to be innovative.
Marcus Sheridan 04:19
Great point! The problem is a lot of people think (like) you do Jared. They think "I've got to have that new technology" "I've got to have that new software." Let's look at Amazon. Is Amazon innovative? 100% change the world. What did they invent? jacksquat, not a dang thing. What Amazon did is, they said, Oh, guess what? You can return it. Hey, we'll send it to you really fast. That's not new. Oh, good service. You tell me no one else has good service? not new. Innovative? Yes, absolutely. Because they made life easier for people. Very, very innovative and that's the thing that people have to understand. When you get rid of obstacles, or frustrations that people have, suddenly you become very, very innovative. You don't have to invent a dang thing. That's what's so beautiful about it.
Jared Simmons 05:25
That's a great point, it's almost about solving a new problem. You know, when you're talking about new and different if you're, if you're solving a new problem, it doesn't have to be a new solution. The solution doesn't have to be new in and of itself. When people feel like you're now solving a problem that hasn't been solved before for them. I feel like that's when things get labeled innovative, and new and different.
Marcus Sheridan 05:46
That's right. That's why to me, when it comes to when people say, Well, how do we become more of an innovative company? because everybody likes to throw that around. To me, it starts with a singular obsession, which is, what are the questions, worries, fears, frustrations, etc. of your customers, of your buyers? If you tap into those? Unlimited, unlimited... let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. This is a simple one from a sales and marketing standpoint, for anybody who's ever read my book, you know that I started off as a poor guy. In fact, I own a swimming pool company. It went on to become one of largest swimming pool companies in the world. We can manufacture a fiberglass pools and we have dealers and franchisees all over the country. Now, we did a lot of stuff that was considered really innovative. But we didn't invent squat. One of the things that we did that was very innovative, was we were the first manufacturer to come up with a pricing calculator for our website. Now, let's say Jared, you're just thinking about a swimming pool. All right, I think I might want to get an inground swimming pool. You go online, 'man, freak, man, it's hard to get some pricing around here.' Well, everybody wants to know how much it is. Now, in my case, the fiberglass swimming pool world, we're a manufacturer and then there's dealers. So as the manufacturer, we price the shell, but the dealer ultimately dictates the prices. So what are we, all the manufacturers say, Oh, we can't dictate the pricing? Well, can you talk about it? Yes, but the problem is, most manufacturers in the space are like, ain't nothing we can do about pricing, we'll set the pricing, bullcrap, you can do a lot about it, you talk a lot about it. What we did is if you go to the website, right now, you can build and price your pool. You're going to choose which shape you want, you're going to choose different options that you want. In the end, we're going to give you a price range, not an exact price, a price range. Now, by doing that, though, what have we done? We've given you more than 99% of the other manufacturers in our space because nobody does it. Of course, what is it become? A literal lead magnet, a cash cow, I mean, I can get over 100 bonafide leads a day that fill that out, because finally, somebody was willing to give them what they want, which goes back to the questions, worries, fears, concerns, frustrations, that your prospects that your customers that your audience has.
Jared Simmons 08:26
That's brilliant, because it also establishes an anchor. As long as I don't know how much a pool costs, I assume that a pool is an expensive thing that I can't afford.
Marcus Sheridan 08:37
That's right and when it comes to the world in which we live today, the information age, ignorance is not bliss. We do not like to be uninformed. In fact, if we feel uninformed, that leads to inertia. Inertia leads to not making decisions. The whole point of doing anything as innovative is that we make things life in general, easier, better. And so that's why again, though, you can't say to somebody go be innovative, and they'll be innovative. You say to someone, I want you to get to know your freaking customers so well, that you know every thought, you know every frustration, you know it just makes them sick and tired of you and listen in on that. If you listen in on those problems, so well, suddenly, you're gonna be flooded with ideas, things that you could be talking about things that you could be developing, things that you could be doing. Remember, most innovation that's happening today is not, to your point earlier, Jared -- which is so amazing, is not inventing something tangible and new. Most innovation happens in the way we sell it or the way we show it or the way we explain it, or the way we deliver it but not the thing itself.
Jared Simmons 10:07
So your pools... use similar technology to other folks?
Marcus Sheridan 10:12
It's the same. It's the same glass particles and resin particles. Now, speaking of that, I'm glad you bring it up here because I like to think that the restaurant; this will be the first time anybody's ever said this on your show, the restaurant Subway is one of the most innovative companies in the world.
Jared Simmons 10:31
Yep, that's a first.
Marcus Sheridan 10:33
You're like what the heck? I mean, we all go to Subway but we don't necessarily love Subway, we go there because it's easier, etc. but Subway did something that really really changed our world and that is this, they made it in front of you. They were the first ones that really made it in front of you and allowed you to guide the process. Now, somebody might say, Well, my New York deli does. No, no, no, I'm talking at scale. At scale, they're the first ones to say, let me do this in front of you. McDonald's didn't do it in front of you, these other fast food places they didn't do it in front of you. From that, what do we see today? You see all these open kitchen models. It started actually with freaking Subway of all places.Now, how did I get off on that tangent? Well, oftentimes, just being willing to show how you do something makes you innovative, makes you very different. Establishes a new trend. In our case, as a fiberglass pool manufacturer, what did we do? Well, what we did is we created a series of videos that were eight videos on average, 10 minutes long. So 80 total minutes here, showing you our entire manufacturing process. If you wanted to start manufacturing your own fiberglass pools tomorrow, and you had enough money to do it, you're like, 'here's my guide. Here's how I do it.'Here's what's happened as a byproduct of it. Of course, is anybody else done this in the space? No. In fact, all the manufacturers said to me, why are you doing this? I'm thinking myself, why are you not ding-dong? Because they want to see the sandwich made in front of them. In fact, we've had dozens of potential dealers reach out to us over the last few years. They said, "Yeah, I had this homeowner come to me, and they said they wanted a pool and they asked me, 'Do you have a river pool?' And we said, 'No, we don't have a river pool.' And they said, 'Well, sorry, I can't get the pool from you because I only want a river pool.' They're like, 'why do you only want a river pool? our pools good too! River is the only one that shows exactly how they make the thing.
Jared Simmons 12:37
Oh, wow. You hear that from dealers?
Marcus Sheridan 12:40
All the time. They're really frustrated because it puts them in a situation of 'dang on it, if I want to earn the sale...' This is why I have no sales reps. I have zero sales reps that go out and acquire new dealers. Because my sales rep is the homeowner that is addicted to the information and the clarity and the transparency that they've gotten from us that they couldn't get from anybody else, making us a very innovative company. Something else that makes you innovative, just calling it something literally Golden Circle, Simon Sinek. It's simple, call it something. Constantly people come to me with good ideas, just Good stuff, good stuff they might be doing with the branding, with their business, whatever that thing is. I said, What's the name? what is really happening? I said, you got nothing, do you got a name? Because until you got a name, you can't tell a story. Until you have a story, you don't have a brand. You got to be to tell a story to have story got to be a time name because the name makes it easy to tell the story.
Jared Simmons 13:47
It gives the listener an anchor to connect to in listening to that story. I'm just processing all of that. The concept of transparency as a vehicle for innovation is just, that's just brilliant. It's so crisp and it's so true. I would never ever have connected it to Subway.
Marcus Sheridan 14:08
But it that's really where the trend started when you think back and I was like wow is actually it's exactly what I began 30 years ago so we start doing it very, very differently, they gave us control. That's actually something which is another... Again, let me give you another just glorious case study of innovation, one that I like a lot. Most people that listen to this probably heard of CarMax. CarMax is the largest retailer of us cars in the world today. Now, has CarMax invented anything? No, they sell used cars thus you don't invent anything as CarMax. What did they do? What they did is they said when they were starting a business, "okay, first of all, our industry screwed up. nobody trusts us. Why does nobody trust us?" Well, there's fundamental things wrong with the industry. Remember what we said Jared? questions, worries, fears, frustrations, etcera. So what are the fears, frustrations, etcera. Well, they found out that most people don't actually like to haggle. They think haggling sucks. Negotiating the car price sucks. They don't like it? That actually plants more seeds of doubt that helps the majority of cases so most people don't like that. Other major fear people are afraid of buying a lemon. Just like I don't want to buy lemon. Other major fears, what if I don't like the car? What if I have buyer's remorse? Those are the major fears. I don't want to haggle. I don't want to buy a lemon. I don't want to have buyer's remorse. They said, okay, is it possible to address each one of these things? What do they do? They come up with this glorious, like a 160-point inspection system that everybody claims to have but the difference is, when you walk into CarMax, and they say are sure about CarMax? You say, "No, I've never been here before." They say, "let me show you the process by which those cars that you see outside qualify to be on that lot." Then they literally show you the inspection process and how it works so now you have a relationship with it that's very different. Also, they were the first major US car retailer to have haggle free pricing. Price is the price come in with $1 less, you're not gonna get the car that day. It doesn't matter, price is the price, but they eliminated this whole idea of "Oh, I need to go talk to the manager. Let me see what I can do." because guess what? It tends to be that most women are making that decision in couples and most women hate negotiating. So wahlah! Now all of a sudden, trust is increased through the transparency. Then finally, you've got the three day money back guarantee, which was crazy at the time. Every competitor said, people are going to buy the car on a Friday night gone joy rides on Saturday and bring it back on Sunday, CarMax said I don't care. What we're trying to do is overcome the fears of our buyers. They became so innovative by overcoming fear and not inventing a single thing. They did stuff that anybody could have done if they had ears to hear and eyes to see. That's innovation.
Jared Simmons 17:13
Wow, that is a great example of so many levels. I really love the element of almost implied trust of their consumer, especially with the three day return, the fear based approach from the broader industry of I can't let you drive this car, I can't let you take it through your normal routines.
Marcus Sheridan 17:33
You take it off a lot. It's yours. Remember that Jared? Take of what's yours. I love doing this with businesses. I love sitting down saying, Okay, what are the biggest fears people have when you're buying your stuff, fix questions or worries, fears, make them write it down. Then we'll do a simple activity, step two, which is would it be possible to overcome each one? If we had to overcome, if we were forced to overcome this... if a fear didn't exist, what would the solution be? Here's what's cool when you're forced to answer that question. In other words, it's easy to say there's no way we can overcome that. Yeah, but if you had to? What would you do, if you had to? Suddenly you have to think in terms of solutions versus why you can't, now it's why I can. By doing this, you look at us, like, you know what? Maybe we could do that? Or maybe we could at least overcome it 80% of the way. Because is it possible that you still get a lemon at CarMax? Yes, but they've overcome 80% of it by having this very robust inspection process that they use, that they show, and therefore they've eliminated a lot of those lemons from the picture.
Jared Simmons 18:46
The transactional trust kind of back and forth between each side, in that is, is huge. When you talk about eliminating fears, addressing those things, and that mindset of what if you had to, it reminds me of concept we used in consulting, or use in consulting, we still use it in our practice today is 'what would have to be true.'
Marcus Sheridan 19:06
I love that phrase.
Jared Simmons 19:08
Not invented, not some new and novel thing to say. But bringing that into the conversation, as you said, in these moments of innovation really unlocks a new set of possibilities. That also I think forces people and let me know if you've seen this in your workshops and things, but I think it forces people to, to say out loud, the silly things that are holding them back, to deal with those things on paper or in front of themselves. If you push past your fears, what would this look like? Then you have to look back and go, Okay, well, what was I really afraid of?
Marcus Sheridan 19:46
That's exactly right. It's a beautiful thing. This whole conversation that we're having about transparency and overcoming fears. It's my obsession, man. That's why I love sales. I love marketing as well as communication, what we're talking about I write a ton about in my book They Ask You Answer, which is just essentially, it's a book in our terms here, how you innovate your sales and marketing simply by obsessing over your customers questions, worries, fears, concerns, issues. One last quick example here, because you mentioned consultant made me think of something, one of the most innovative things any business could do this listen to this right now is you can explain clearly cost, price, etc, of your product or your service on your website right now. 99% of service based businesses don't talk about it. Why? Because they want you to call and they want to talk about it. Now, you don't want to call and you certainly, as the buyer, you don't want surprises, you want somebody to give it to you straight, to explain the thing. So every company, every person, let's say a consultant even is listening to this right now. Most time consultants never give the pricing and never get the rates. But here's what you could do, at a bare minimum, teach the marketplace. What drives costs up for, let's say, consultants, or manufacturers or anybody for that matter? What keeps costs down? What are some companies so expensive? Why are some other companies so cheap? Simply by addressing those four things? What drives costs up? What keeps costs down? Why are some companies expensive? Why are some companies cheap? Now all of a sudden, you've communicated and taught your marketplace, your customer, potential customer, something that probably none of your competitors have talked about, which makes you viewed as very innovative. You've helped them you've made the process, easier process of buying that thing.
Jared Simmons 21:42
Got it. I feel like I'm getting free coaching here so thank you for that. Everybody wins, all boats rise. Now, as we're getting into talking about businesses and services and those things, talk to me about business to business versus business to consumer.
Marcus Sheridan 22:03
Man, you had to go there, didn't you? One of the things that just grates my soul is, and I had to deal with this early on as a speaker; I speak professionally, I've given almost 1000 presentations around the world. When I first started speaking, like 11 years ago, I'd have people come up to me at the end and they say this is really cool, Marcus, but we're a service based business. I don't know if this would apply to me and my customers. My client's interesting your customers isn't too? Here's the thing about this, this is why you always want to start with the principle of the thing. What we've been talking about, are really two main principles, transparency and trust. Sure. If I said to you or anybody is transparency and trust going to be important to your success as a business in 20 years? 99 out of 100 are gonna say absolutely 100%. Yes, yeah, sure, certainly they will. This is the thing that binds all businesses together. Trust is the fundamental building block of all business. When you lean into the principles, when you obsess over questions, worries, fears, concerns, frustrations, all these things, and you address them somehow, some way that makes you that voice of trust. That trusted company and that is timeless that's not going away. When you're obsessed with the way buyers think the marketplace doesn't pass you by. industry doesn't pass you by. Because unlike Kodak, you're not sitting there saying, Oh, we invented this stuff! Dumbest line ever. You're saying, gosh, we've got to replace what we're doing because people want it to be faster. They want it to be easier. Do they want to buy film every time? No. But that's what they were, they were a film company and because they didn't have a different paradigm about what they were they're classic, a classic study of failure, and not success. They lost touch with the marketplace, their innovation stopped, because they stopped obsessing over what buyers really want and they no longer were that voice of trust.
Jared Simmons 24:20
That's exactly right. There's so many examples of that.
Marcus Sheridan 24:22
Oh, so many bro, because the leaders of the previous generation are always slowest to adopt what comes and adapt to what comes next. Classic example, there's Henry Ford. Henry Ford, at one time, crazy innovative. He says, Well, if I did what all my customers wanted, I would have come up with a faster horse. That's one of his famous lines. Then his other famous line which people celebrating is actually what costs Ford and almost like they lost their business from it is when he said you can have any color you want. As long as it's black now it's for the Model T, if you recall. Now, guess what? That meant his pride and arrogance with growing, he was no longer thinking I need to evolve with the marketplace, listen to what they want, frustrations, etc. Now, he was more thinking about we've been doing it this way for this long and it's worked. It's what's gotten us here. It's what's always going to get us there. No, that is not true and it's becoming less and less true the more we're thrust into this digital age where change is so freaking rapid progress. It's crazy rapid which means that we have got to be obsessing all the time about these things. We should start with ourselves, Jared. Because when I came up with the framework of They Ask You Answer, literally, I was like, Okay, so here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take all the questions that I've been asked over the years, I'm address them on my website, boom, right? Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. It's been translated in multiple languages now, embraced by 1000s of companies. I said, just take every question where you're concerned, you've ever been asked and address it on your website, do it honestly, do transparently, you become the voice of trust. Oh, that is so counter intuitive to so many people. I'll put myself in that bucket. When you step out and build a business and you're trying to find customers, clients, consumers, whatever you want to call them. The first thing people tell you is, Oh, you got to protect your intellectual property because that's the cornerstone of the business. Your secret sauce that everybody already knows is 1000 Island dressing, jack. That whole IP thing, people IP. Yeah, right, never seen this before. Man, I got to share one other quick story with you. Not to beat this swim pool thing to death but before we became a manufacturer of pools, and we were just a dealer, like everybody else, I remember saying one time, I'm tired of saying, where we've got the best fiberglass pool shell on the market, best quality but yet, nobody's ever shown how these things are made. So I went one time to a big dealer meeting that we had at the plant of our manufacturer. I was sitting down to plan I was looking at what they were doing. I'm like, I'm gonna whip out my video camera right now and start doing a video on this. So I started doing a video on it and the owner of the company, the CEO, just starts running out onto the plant like oh my gosh. He's like, wow, you can't record this. Wow pal, you can't record this. I'm like, why can't I record? It's like, we have very proprietary technology that you're seeing up there. I'm like, dude, I've been to four manufacturing plants other than yours, let me tell you how I've seen that technology on every single one. This ain't no different. You ain't special. But if you show it, you will be special. This is how people think and it's still true. It's 2021, we still acting in like, we have secret sauce when we don't. Listen, you might be Coca Cola. You might be KFC, but 99.999% of us are not KFC and are not Coca-Cola.
Jared Simmons 28:21
And don't want to be, in the broader context of how you do business. That's a great story and a very vivid example that I've lived and myself and I've grown a bit to the point that I'm working on talking other people out of that mindset. But your phrasing in your analogy there is a perfect way to highlight the absurdity of it, which is essentially what I do for a living. It's helping people see the absurdity of what they're too close to see.
Marcus Sheridan 28:50
Set curse of knowledge.
Jared Simmons 28:52
It definitely is
Marcus Sheridan 28:53
So close to it, that you just missed the mark. Man, it happens all the time.
Jared Simmons 28:58
I want to ask you one more quick question. Then I'll let you get back to innovating. I want to ask you about advice. I know you're a speaker, and you do workshops, and you write books, all these things. I know you're always offering your perspective, your expertise. But one thing I really like about your website and everything else is the transparency but also how tactical you get with what to go do, how to be different, how to operate differently. A lot of books, Simon Sinek has an amazing model, amazing framework. His books leave you a couple steps away from like actually going back to your desk and operating differently. I feel like you close that gap pretty well in your books and in in your workshops. So talk to me about advice you would have for innovators.
Marcus Sheridan 29:47
Well, it's funny when you're talking about that Jared, people ask me all the time, Marcus aren't you afraid you're giving away a little too much? I will constantly tell clients, potential clients, when we're getting ready to engage. I said, now listen, you're just going to pay me to do what I've already shown you how to do in 10 different ways online. You think about that, just because people take comfort in somebody grabbing their hand and walking them through sometimes what is the obvious right? Does it lessen the learning curve? Of course it does. But when you act, so matter of fact about it, yeah, of course, it's out there but the fact that I give it always what makes it so attractive. There's a lot of speakers that don't allow their stuff to be recorded, because they feel like, well, if it's recorded, nobody's gonna want to see me live. I'm like, I want you to record me. I want you to show me to your grandmother, and your grandma's grandmother. What have you got to do? You go ahead, spread the word. How many times if somebody is a Grateful Dead head, how many times have they watched the very same act over and over and over and each time to just enjoy it like it's first? When we release that, and understand that, as is actually not the way we provide value to the world. You give more way and you get more. This isn't karma, which I believe is a good thing and a real thing but this is just common sense. Last thing I'll say about that is, a lot of people have heard of the Geek Squad, or that group that fixes computers. They do a great job teaching people how to fix their computers at home. Somebody went to the CEO of the Geek Squad one time and said, Why cutting off your nose here? Like, you know, this is what you do? He said, Don't you realize my number one customer is the person that tries to do it themselves? Like, dang, I do. He gets it. There's always room on top, always room.
Jared Simmons 31:56
This has been an amazing conversation. So many nuggets to take back and think about, I can't wait to link to all the great videos on your site in our show notes and let people know where to find you and find more value and get their hands on these books, They Ask You Answer and The Visual Sale.
Marcus Sheridan 32:14
For your listeners too, make sure you follow me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty dang good follow on LinkedIn. That's where I live for the most part. If anybody listen to this, and you got a personal question for me, you can email me personally marcus@marcussheridan.com. But to your point, Jared, They Asked You Answer is where everybody should start. That's the book. It will take what you think you know about marketing and it's going to flip it on its head. I promise you that. I promise you that.
Jared Simmons 32:38
I can't wait to continue to dive in. I'm not all the way through it but I'm working through it and it's been it's been amazing already. I appreciate your time, Marcus, appreciate your energy, appreciate your problem solving view of sales and marketing, which I think a lot of us needed to hear because there's a lot of stigma around sales and marketing. This conversation really revealed what it's really about which is solving problems for customers. Thank you for being the ambassador you are for that type of sales and marketing. I appreciate your time.
Marcus Sheridan 33:10
My pleasure, brother. Thanks.
Jared Simmons 33:12
All right, take care. We'd love to hear your thoughts about this week's show. You can drop us a line on Twitter at OUTLAST LLC, or follow us on LinkedIn where we're OUTLAST Consulting. Until next time, keep innovating. Whatever that means.