Episode 65 of "What is Innovation?" is here! Jared sits down with Hussain Almossawi, author of The Innovator's Handbook: A Short Guide to Unleashing Your Creative Mindset and founder of Mossawi Studios. In this episode, they talk about how innovation can spring from small ideas compounding into one great big implementation. Are you approaching the innovation process smartly? How will you build on something that doesn't necessarily follow the "standards?" Is the primary inventor or innovator's way the only way to do things? Hussain's insights, expertise, and experience will guide you how to use innovation to build great careers and great products.
Hussain Almossawi, author of The Innovator's Handbook: A Short Guide to Unleashing Your Creative Mindset and founder of Mossawi Studios talks on how innovation can spring from small ideas compounding into one great big implementation.
More about our guest:
Hussain Almossawi is also renowned designer and innovator who has worked across industries around the world creating and consulting for companies, including Nike, Apple, Google, Adidas, EA Sports, Intel, and Ford Motor Company. As a regular keynote speaker on innovation and design, Hussain has also taught at several universities such as The New School.
In 2019, he founded Mossawi Studios, a multi-disciplinary design studio specializing in creating memorable, iconic, and bold experiences. He loves blurring the lines between product design, visual effects, and storytelling.
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Episode Guide:
0:00 - Intro
1:25 - What is Innovation?
2:13 - "Bettering an idea"
3:12 - Improvements and Collaborations in the footwear industry
5:49 - Innovation and Invention: a crossroad
8:52 - FingerWorks and SoundJam: Apple acquired companies
11:56 - What is not Innovation?
12:54 - Innovation and Invention: becoming erroneously synonymous
14:06 - Innovation shaping careers?
15:16 - Book: The Innovator's Handbook (out on sept 6)
16:50 - The First Principles Method
20:44 - Advice for Innovators
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Resources Mentioned:
Books / Articles:
Companies Mentioned:
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OUTLAST Consulting offers professional development and strategic advisory services in the areas of innovation and diversity management.
/This transcript was automatically generated using AI; please forgive any inconsistencies. We are working to provide the correct and more concise copy of the transcript. For urgent need, please send us an email.
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Jared Simmons 00:05
Hello, and welcome to what is innovation. The podcast that explores the reality of a word that is in danger of losing its meaning altogether. This podcast is produced by Outlast consulting, LLC, a boutique consultancy that helps companies use innovation principles to solve their toughest business problems. I'm your host, Jared Simmons, and I'm so excited to have Hussein Alma Sally Hussein amo Sally is a renowned designer and innovator who has worked across industries around the world creating and consulting for companies including Nike, Apple, Google, Adidas, EA Sports, Intel and Ford Motor Company. As a regular keynote speaker on innovation and design, Hussain has also taught at several universities such as the New School in 2019, Hussain founded Mousavi studios, a multidisciplinary design studio specializing in creating memorable, iconic and bold experiences. He loves blurring the lines between product design, visual effects, and storytelling. He is the author of the innovators handbook, a short guide unleashing your creative mindset. Hussein, welcome to the show. So excited to have you on looking forward to the conversation.
Hussain Almossawi 01:19
Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jared Simmons 01:21
Great. So let's just dive right in. What in your mind is innovation.
Hussain Almossawi 01:27
So innovation, if you look over the internet, and read through books that has all kinds of different definitions, let's say, which becomes a bit tricky, but through my experience, innovation is the process of enhancing, improving, and bettering something could be an experience could be a product, a service, a process, anything really. So innovation is basically a great idea that is well executed. That leaves a significantly positive change, regardless of how big or small that idea is, but execution is definitely key. Otherwise, an idea is just going to be an idea that really doesn't move the needle. Exactly. So that's what I think innovation sums up into. Yeah, no, it's,
Jared Simmons 02:06
it's beautiful. It's a great definition of enhancing, improving, and bettering something you've covered a lot. Just in those few words, I would love to hear you talk a bit about the bettering piece. Does it mean to make something better? And what does that look like in practice?
Hussain Almossawi 02:21
Short, so it's basically an evolution of ideas that either you come up with either you, you can take some existing ideas and come up with a new idea through collaboration. So I mean, everything around us, innovation has played a role in it, whether it's our cars, our phones, our TVs, cameras, laptops, you name it. So year after year, how can we improve that? How can we take it from one level to the next level? How can we reduce friction to the user? Like if they're using their phone, for example? Sure, how can it be a better experience and more fun experience. And a lot of times, it's not things that the consumer is aware of, but you introduce new things and bring it to the table. And that's a mindset that Steve Jobs had a lot. I listened to him and one of his talks where he's mentioning that sometimes the consumer doesn't really know what they want, but you can tell them what they want, and then they can't live without it. Right. Right. So that's part of the bettering, taking something and taking it to the next level, improving it.
Hussain Almossawi 03:12
I worked a lot on footwear, I worked a lot on automotive. And we see that year after year, like if we're working on let's say, shoe for a basketball player, or for a soccer player. If you look at the shoes from let's say, 2000 2000 1002, all the way to 1022. Year after year, there's improvements in materials and technologies. And as it lightweight, as a durable. I mean, thanks to the technologies that we have, even from different industries, we can always pull those things in sure, that really helps the product to evolve and become something better. So collaboration, I would say is key, not just with individuals around us and people who are different from us, but also collaboration with different industries. And there's lots of examples that we can share around that.
Jared Simmons 03:54
That's a great space. First explore, I want to hone in on something you said about footwear, footwear in automotive both have sort of this kind of annual cadence to them, where the expectation is that next year's model will be better than this year's model. So the expectation of an innovation is kind of built into the way the product works. It's not like something that you buy and keep for 15 years and expect it to just not break. Absolutely. And that's why I love this bettering part of what you're talking about. Because it's about creating this momentum of improvement, where it looks natural and evolutionary. But I'm sure you were working on the shoe that's coming out three years from now. Exactly. It's just coming out five years from now and what technology platform are we going to shift to? How do we look out into the future even though it's coming to the consumer on sort of an annual basis? Yeah, it's
Hussain Almossawi 04:47
tough. I mean, in different companies I've worked with innovation is usually like, for example, when I was in Adidas, we worked on things that are four years out. But then we had a team that worked on things that are 10 years out. And then there was also a team that was Like closest to the market, and that was like two years or one years out? Yeah. So it's really a process where the team looks at the bigger picture. What could the future look like blue sky. For example, imagine a shoe, a car, whatever that comes out in the year 2100. A car that is on Mars, right? So the more you change those constraints that you have, when you're designing something, or building something, the more you can think outside of the box. Idea is to take those crazy and wild ideas, package them and look at reality, okay, where it doesn't 22 Now, what exists? What technologies are out there? Who can we collaborate with? Who can we partner up with? Maybe it opens up some opportunities to come up with technology that doesn't exist? It all starts with the idea, and how can you reach those ideas and those new exciting ideas that do not exist at the moment.
Hussain Almossawi 05:49
A lot of people are so confused innovation with invention. So you don't really need to reinvent the wheel, you don't need to come up with something that is groundbreaking. And that's really something I think that I was super interested in, like working with, when I was with Apple when I was with Ford when I'm with Adidas, Nike, whoever, from the outside, you look at these giants. And these companies, as you know, they come up with the next big groundbreaking idea. But the thing is, it's all baby steps and a small steps. And it's all incremental, and different teams, different minds collaborating together, putting, you know, pieces of the puzzle together, right? And then that's how you see the wow moments of wow, this big, cool idea that no one thought of, but it all starts with the baby steps. That's really key.
Jared Simmons 06:31
Baby steps. Yeah, no, that's a great caller and the roll call of companies you laid out there. They are at the forefront in their industries of innovation and forward thinking. And so it's really encouraging, I think, for innovators in all companies to be able to understand that it's really about the small steps that add up to the big wow moment.
Hussain Almossawi 06:52
Exactly, exactly. And even as a kid, like I was always an aspiring designer, I saw these cool inventions around the world. And I'm like, How did I not think of that? Yeah, oh, this looks so simple, or this looks so cool. But here's the thing, it shouldn't be overwhelming innovation, right? And it's all about having the right mindset. And when I had the opportunity to work with the biggest brands in the world, the most innovative brands in the world, I really saw that it wasn't big things that you know, led to innovation. It was all the small insights and small things that we can all do. That can change our mindset and give us a shift in our mindset, and lead to innovation, innovative thinking because it's all about thinking outside the box, and coming up with cool ideas, or cool ideas that are good. Not every cool idea is good.
Jared Simmons 07:38
That's right in the momentum that is created by several small ideas can get you to that big, cool, implementable idea. Absolutely. The one that actually can be that game changer. Absolutely, absolutely. But you're right, it looks on the outside. Like, they just went from A to Z, you know, just one big leap. But it's a combination of very small, incremental steps along the way. And your point around invention versus innovation is a great one. Each of those steps might not have been inventing a thing, it might have been borrowing this from the food industry or borrowing this thing from the space program or whatever, to help move the needle in terms of what consumers are looking for.
Hussain Almossawi 08:19
Exactly. So like I mean, two examples when we were in the footwear industry, when I was in the footwear industry, we were looking at traction, for example, for basketball for any kind of shoe. We'd look at different tire companies, bicycle tires, car tires, how do they work with traction? If we're looking for a good fit system? How does NASA do it when they spent send their astronauts to the space a seat belts for example. So really looking outside of I mean, things that don't relate when you mix them together, and you fuse them together? Some really nice, crazy ideas come out of it. Yeah, I can imagine.
Hussain Almossawi 08:52
Another cool story is Steve Jobs in 2007, when the iPhone was gonna come out. So he took two different inventions. The first was finger works, a company that Apple acquired. And finger works basically, they they had these kind of tablets that would do this finger gestures on it. And it was for people that had issues with the wrist, they couldn't use the mouse a lot. So they gave they did this as an alternative. And somebody at Apple was using this device. And when they saw it, they were like cool. We could implement this in a way and in our own devices or such. So that turned into a touchscreen which Apple came up with on the iPhone. That was a big innovation. Yeah, but did Apple invented no sound jam was another company that Apple acquired and sound jam turned into what was later iTunes and the iTunes aspect of things and then the the touchscreen with finger works. That's what made the first iPhone special. Yeah. And if you look at the innovation process from the first iPhone to where we are now, it's just incremental is just adding on to what they had, but they had a really good strong DNA to start with.
Jared Simmons 09:56
And they did not sit around and wait for their people in there. company to come up with the technology the approach they needed, they went out and acquired
Hussain Almossawi 10:04
100% 100%. And that's actually an ego thing. Also, I see that a, I don't know if it's an ego thing, or if it's an ignorance thing. But as sometimes companies, even individuals, they think that they should be the ones who come up with all ideas, right? Not at all. I mean, innovation, part of it is being open minded, thinking outside the box, building and executing. But then another part of it is collaborating, like Apple was acquiring different companies. So even being smart in your approach in your process, that's really key. Because at the end of the day, you want to create an innovative ecosystem, right, that works and produces great ideas,
Jared Simmons 10:38
and innovative ecosystem. That is the goal, right? Because I think those of us who have worked inside of big companies, and even small companies know the difference between an innovative product and an innovative ecosystem, you can get lucky and create an innovative product. But it takes an innovative ecosystem to deliver iPhone and iPad, and the consistent, innovative game changing products to the market
Hussain Almossawi 11:05
represents 100%. Yeah, so for me, it all started with my internship at Nike, I started my internship, I always thought of Nike, as most people that is a sports company, right? But then on the inside, they're like, No, Nikes, not a sports company. It's an innovation company, we just do sports products. So that really changed the way I looked at things. And it's really a good designers, not just a designer, really every innovative person's mindset of how they approach a problem, how they try to come up with cool ideas, good ideas that leave a positive impact. And it doesn't matter if you're doing a car or a shoe or a laptop. That's all about the mindset.
Jared Simmons 11:41
Right? Right, right. I love that. And it shows in the wave. Things come to life from Nike, it definitely shows the difference between being an innovation company that happens to make footwear versus being a shoe company that tries to be innovative. So that's what innovation is enhancing, improving bettering. What isn't innovation.
Hussain Almossawi 12:02
I think we touched on this. But an important thing is that innovation is not an invention. And it's not the need to reinvent the wheel. Even if you're not inventing something. I speak about myself when I was just getting started out. Sir, I always thought that every idea had to be this big next thing that everybody's going to talk about in the world. Not necessarily, right. Again, it's all about those baby steps. It's all about having persistence, when you have come up with an idea being flexible. So going from point A to B, let's say that's your goal as an innovator, but really always land on point C. So having that flexibility and you know, going left and right until you get to the idea of learning from your mistakes. Failure, it's a big part of it, willing to fail, and learning from those failures really pushes you and it allows you to get to that innovation spot. So yeah, innovation is not invention for sure.
Jared Simmons 12:53
I couldn't agree more. How do you think the two became so erroneously synonymous?
Hussain Almossawi 12:59
Yeah, I mean, I guess they both have to do with coming up with an idea that leaves a positive impact. Now there are different scales. Invention is something that has never been done before. It's totally new, groundbreaking. And then innovation is, let's say, taking those baby steps towards improving something, right. Yeah, I think just as a, I don't know if that's a good answer.
Jared Simmons 13:23
No, it's a great answer. Because what it highlights is that when you look at invention, you're looking back at nothing. When you talk about invention, there was not this thing. And then there was this thing, and there's a moment it was invented. Exactly. And when you're talking about innovation, it's often an evolution faced on an insight for a problem to be solved or a job to be done. So it's by definition, more evolutionary. Absolutely. And part of that walk might be inventing something. But it doesn't necessarily have to be part of that progression toward an innovative solution. So I think you're exactly right. That makes perfect sense to me. Great. So you've mentioned some of the places you've had the opportunity to do this type of work. How has innovation shaped your career?
Hussain Almossawi 14:13
So yeah, as I mentioned, it all started for me like the innovation process with Nike, when I started as an intern. Before that, I didn't really look at things through the lens of innovation. It was all about cool design, because I'm a designer, sure, like aesthetically, something that looks cool. Maybe it solves a problem. But I never really had a clear process in terms of something that is innovative that is going to improve the experience the process, be something that is evolutionary of what's existed before so with Nike that really changed my mindset towards things. And then when I went from company to company, whether I was consulting, working with them through my company, whether I was working with them full time, so I've worked with Apple, Amazon, Ford, Nike, Adidas, Pepsi, so lots of different companies who are in the innovation space and It was interesting to me because none of these companies really had like an innovation guidebook like, Alright, you're on board. This is how we're gonna innovate, right? It's all about the mindset. It was kind of like brilliant minds who got together and did things in a certain way. And I saw lots of this overlap between different companies.
Hussain Almossawi 15:16
That's what's really pushed me towards writing my book, The Innovators handbook. So about these small insights that change your mindset, and make you look at things through the lens of innovation, and innovative thinking. So yeah, it's not as overwhelming as we sometimes think it is. Yeah. But as small hacks and small shifts, and the way we look at stuff that can allow us to be more innovative, for example, I mean, we mentioned collaboration, another thing is being super laser focused, let's say I'm working on a shoe, a shoe needs to be comfortable, needs to have good traction, it needs to have good fit. Let's say the shoe is about these three things. But if you start to look at all three things, and you want to make the next shoe that solves all those three problems, you want to come up with an innovative as innovative product, as just looking at solving for fit, right solving for comfort, solving for traction. So what's the best shoe that you can do that has the best traction. And then you kind of have these three buckets, and you have different ingredients. And then it's all about mixing and matching, but you're super focused on solving just one problem at a time. So I saw that a lot in different companies. And this is just one example of the kind of, let's say, shifts in the mindset that allow you to think of things through different scope.
Jared Simmons 16:26
That's great. Well, I would imagine it opens up the door for productive trade offs. So if you're trying to solve all three of the major categories at once, then you could be over constraining your system. And if you focus on one at a time, it allows you to make trade offs in the other areas and learn a bit about well, how important is traction is the best possible shoot from attraction standpoint. Do people want it?
Hussain Almossawi 16:48
Exactly, exactly, yeah. And then also, like the first principles method, that's something that Elon Musk use a lot. And I love that process. And we did use it a lot on footwear when I worked on different projects. Sure. And the first principles method is basically taking a product that exists, you break it down into its core and different parts. The the model on a table, for example, if we had a shoe, we had the cushion, we had the midsole, we had the outsole, we had the laces, everything, we just broke the shoe apart. And then we started to ask questions like, if we're solving for or for designing for comfort? Does this really give us the most comfortable shoe? Does this part or this part or this part? And then we start to question each part and see if we really need it. Can we take it out? Can we put something better in there? What can we put in there for asking these good questions, and then putting the shoe back together, come up with a shoe that is more innovative, maybe more productive, and it just really breaks the stigma off. This is how things are done and how they should be done. And you're kind of challenging the way it was created in the first place. Right? Right. Because a lot of things around us, we just think it's a given like, Okay, this is how cars are built. This is how laptops are built. I mean, the way Elon Musk did his SpaceX spaceships, he reduced the price of how much it was built, like the batteries and everything else, just because he went through this process. And the way things are built aren't necessarily the way they should be built.
Jared Simmons 18:09
We'll say we'll say it. And we do bring that assumption to a lot of things, consciously questioning that assumption has to be a very valuable approach. I haven't get my hands on it yet. But I'm really excited to check out your book, because I love that title, if nothing else, because it really hits home with the fact that there is no innovation degree. You know what I mean? Exactly. You can't learn what you need to learn about how to innovate in a company or in the business world from a university experience. You have to learn it as a apprentice, you know, in in the real world.
Hussain Almossawi 18:45
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So the book, it's called the innovators handbook. Since you mentioned the book. It's out September 6, it's up for pre orders now on Amazon. And that was my whole intention behind it. give the reader a front row seat into these companies, and show that innovation isn't as overwhelming as it seems, a small trick small hacks and your mindset that can allow you to see things differently. They also have a chapter with some practical exercises of like how you can think outside the box and things that I've tried in different workshops, even when I teach that do work. For example, you mentioned the assumptions thing. So one thing is always to take the assumption of, let's say, restaurants or food, restaurants have chairs and tables. That's an assumption that we all know. All right, let's flip that around. Restaurants don't have food. They don't serve food. They don't have chairs and tables, then what does the restaurant look like? So now that opens up a whole new perspective for you of looking at things and right, okay, then what can this restaurant look like? Well, what could be incited if there's no chairs and tables, and, and so on. So there's a whole chapter on practical exercises as well. That's a short, fun book. It's not the ultimate guide to innovation. And I mentioned that in the book. It's a short guide to kind of spark your curiosity and supercharge your mindset to start innovating and thinking outside The
Jared Simmons 20:00
That's fantastic. I love that you leave it kind of at that point, because as an innovator, you know, that's where innovation starts. You can't write a full book on azz how to innovate. It depends on your environment. And so having a handbook that gives you the tools, and kind of a good starting place, and something to refer back to as you work through your career and through your products, exactly. I think that's a great thing that
Hussain Almossawi 20:24
and it's all perspectives. I'm sure if you were to write the book, you would have different ideas. And again, it's all about just sharing different perspectives, what we think works for innovation, and having a good innovative mindset.
Jared Simmons 20:34
Yeah, that's what this podcast is all about. There's no right answer on what innovation is, right? It's all perspectives. And they're all useful in their own way. So it's been a great conversation. Before I let you go, I just want to find out if you have any advice for innovators,
Hussain Almossawi 20:49
I think we touched on a few of them, like learning to fail. And these are also some of the chapters in the book, not being afraid of failures. I don't even like to call them failures, but they're all experiences. And there are lessons. So the top innovators and let's say CEOs and executives, they probably failed a lot. And it's that experience that gives them that advantage over others, that they know what works and what doesn't work. So they know what not to do next time they're trying to do something. So that's one thing, learning to fail.
Hussain Almossawi 21:18
Being curious is a really important one. As kids, we're always curious, we're asking questions. I have a three and a half year old, she's asking me all kinds of questions every day. But as we grow up, we kind of stop asking questions. And we also are pushed by society to not ask a lot of questions. So that also makes us less curious. So being curious sponge, I'd say soaking things in being open to everything. And then that kind of allows you to think of things differently. And Leonardo da Vinci is a great example of that is not books were filled with curiosities and questions are What does a woodpeckers tongue look like? Why is the sky blue?
Hussain Almossawi 21:51
So curiosity, collaboration, the more we collaborate with different industries with different people, like collaboration and diversity, I'd say who are different from us, different cultures, backgrounds, races, religions, all of that stuff, the more different your teams are, the more innovative you could be just because everybody brings a different perspective to the table. Like I've worked on teams where people speak different languages. And it's been super interesting. And they're from different countries, right? And everybody comes with a different background, different culture, and we all bring something new to the table. So I think those three are like, I'd say, my top three.
Hussain Almossawi 22:24
The last one I'd say is just be positive. And you know, keep pushing and use the negative people and the naysayers as your fuel. Because it's really easy to be put down or let down sometimes, yes. And the innovation process, it's a long process. But it's also a fun process. So enjoy the ride by using negativity to your advantage. So I'd say those four things.
Jared Simmons 22:47
Yeah, no, those are great feeling and thinking about it, not in the context of the word failure, but more in experiences and lessons. Exactly. And curiosity, maintaining that curiosity. I love that. And the Vinci's notebooks, if you haven't seen them, you know, Google it and just just take a look at what those pages look like. You're right. It's curiosity personified. So that's a perfect example of curiosity, collaboration and diversity. I think diversity and innovation go hand in hand. I talk about it all the time. I think innovation is key to diversity and diversity is key to innovation. And yeah, the collaborative aspect of that, having an environment where you can leverage the diversity, where you can have a diverse team, and it doesn't become a distraction. Exactly. And if you don't have a positive, healthy culture, you can't make the most of the diversity you bring to the table, even if you bring it to the table. And then the positivity. I love that it's really key to making progress anywhere because they're going to be setbacks. And if you can't maintain a positive attitude, those setbacks become permanent, and you don't make progress. Exactly. Yeah. Those are great. Love those. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure Hussein, and I'm really excited that we had a chance to chat. Thank you so much for your definition of innovation around enhancing, improving and bettering products and services. And I look forward to staying connected and staying in touch.
Hussain Almossawi 24:10
Thank you. Thanks for having me. This was fun. Appreciate it.
Jared Simmons 24:12
All right. Take care.
Jared Simmons 24:18
We'd love to hear your thoughts about this week's show. You can drop us a line on Twitter at Outlast, LLC, o u t l a s LLC, or follow us on LinkedIn where we're at less consulting. Until next time, keep innovating. Whatever that means.